(Continued from page 5)

You weren’t in the 262 for very long were you?  How many missions?

I had the 262 for over half a year…you know they build ‘em… one down in America.

Yeah!  They flew one few months ago!

They got it up…I was there.  If the pilot would have done what I told him…he wouldn’t have grounded it...

The wrecked the landing gear didn’t they?

Yeah, the undercarriage collapsed…

What did he do wrong?

What we always did…when we came in for a landing, and we were high yet, we sideslipped so the undercarriage would really lock.

And he didn’t?

It was common that it did that, you know…automatically.  We had the same problem.  Thing is, if we didn’t get the wheels even, you know, because the airplane exploded right there.  Because on the front there was a little gas engine on each side, you know… and the gas tank there, and as soon as it hit the ground…something happened to set the tank off.

 The engines over heat a lot?

Yeah, you had to be careful because, don’t forget the engine was a 28 hr. engine…if you made 20 hours you were a hero, you know.

 The whole engine was replaced after?

Yeah, replaced…and very fast. But…we were under- powered too…they now in the US had 50% more horsepower then we did, you know…and it’s a 10,000 hr. engine.  That’s the problem piloting it… I’ll have to phone ‘em….

 I know they were finishing a 2-seater…

Yeah, that was a 2-seater…the second one is a…for the Messerschmitt Foundation…and it’s almost finished.  They built 5 of them.

 I think one is going to Arizona…

Yeah, some uh…judge bought it.

 Very expensive…

…Two million dollars.

 So when you rocked the plane side to side to lock the landing gear, did you have to do that for any other plane?

No, no…only on the 262.

 It had 4 cannons in the front…

Yeah…four, three centimetre cannons…all in the front there… 

How was that? 

We would, uh…start normally shoot head on with the 262…but after, we didn’t do it.  Well, you’d shoot the wing off a B-17…just like nothing.

I was reading that pilots specifically had a fairly large camaraderie and respect for each other…even against an enemy.   Was reading an article on the Finnish Ace “Illu" Juutilanen, and whenever he could, he would sometime fly over the aircraft he shot down to look to make sure the pilot was okay.

In combat you count them…like when I shot a B-17 down…and I…you had a tendency of counting the parachutes, you know…how many parachutes came out, you know…or…when she… she exploded…you felt sorry, you know…same when if you shot a fighter down…and…and most of the time they…could jump…unless you killed him

(There was pause from both of us at this point.  It felt like it lasted a couple of minutes). Did you normally shoot a specific area of the plane, like the wing root?

You’d shoot anywhere you can, because you’re position was not always good.  You didn’t just shoot at the wing…you shot everything.

With all these tail gunners shooting at you, were you mainly diving, then coming back around, or would you go from behind?

That was…you can’t really say that…because you’d do it all automatically.  In the first place you had to be a good airplane pilot…Most of the time we don’t remember what we did…

So it was all instinct? 

Yeah…but...there was too much, uh… combat.  You’d combat for half and hour and you’re worn out…up and down…and…

How did the oxygen regulator work when you were fighting at higher altitudes? 

You didn’t do anything.  You’d put the mask on, and that’s it...that’s all.  Yes, you could see…from the meter, how you…when you breathe in.

I brought with me an Oxygen Regulator from a Messerschmitt, because I had some questions about it 

Wow, is that German?

Yeah…it’s from a Messerschmitt.  (Franz held the Oxygen Regulator and examined it for a couple of minutes). 

Oh yeah…if you needed more oxygen, you’d push this button…you’d did the same thing when you uh…are out with your girlfriend…(Franz smiles)…you jump in the airplane for 5 min. and with the heavy breathing…and you’d need the oxygen...

(We share a laugh)  The Messerschmitt was a very small, cramped cockpit.           

Uhhh, well… we didn’t need a shoehorn to get in, but pretty close.  But it was comfortable when we were sitting.  Everything is right there.  This one had a big uh…cabin (pointing to a pic of a 262)…was also comfortable…it was bigger, we had to get used to it…there was lots of room in there.  

Did you ever have to bail out of a 262? No...I flew home a few times with one engine, you know…but I never bailed out. You flew home on one engine?  That must have been very hard to control?  No… you can change the rudder, uh…the rudder tilt, and the airplane flew still straight, you know…no it wasn’t a problem. Did you every use flaps only for take off and landing, or did you use them during combat as well for tighter turns?  Not in combat, no…no, never…only for take-off and landing.

Franz Stigler’s Me262.  For decades it was thought that this was the personal aircraft of General Galland.  To the contrary, Galland never set foot in White 3.  Rumours began when a pic was taken of him outside of White 3, when in fact Galland flew whatever aircraft was available to him.

How about trim? 

Mmm…yeah, perhaps …well…sometimes, yeah… The 262 there was pretty hard on…on pressures… on stick pressure.  The control pressure was very high… 

It was a bigger control stick, no? 

Yeah, yeah…a real long one. 

Was that just so you had more movement? 

No, you didn’t do much movement, you just had to move the stick a little bit, that’s all. 

Were there any tactics that you were trained in using that you thought didn’t work? 

…yeah…ahhh, I mean, it didn’t matter…I have 487 combat missions, you know…that’s a lot.  You don’t know which one was which.  It’s not like the Americans that make thirty missions, and then they go home.  As long as you could climb in the airplane, you flew…the reason why we lost so many of the old-timers, you know…they got...worn out and had a very low chance of surviving… (Franz began browsing though the copy of Prien and Rodeike’s I brought with me)  I tried to get this book, you know…where did you buy it? 

Umm…this one I ordered form the US.

Yeah, it’s a nice book 

…It’s called “The Pictorial History of the Me109 F-K series.  I got it only about 1 month ago, and it’s very, very good. 

(Franz looks through the pictures) Yeah, it’s a German translation…it’s very good…I have some 109 books, you know…(Franz pulls out a few smaller 109 books he has on his massive bookcase)

There’s actually 2 pictures of your plane in this one.  (I point out the 2 pics on pg. 128. Franz continues to study the photos).  Did you ever have to belly land?

11 times I had to…

 In the handbook/flight manual, it says to never release the landing gear…why is that? 

You somersault…if there were fairly fair sized fields, you know…then it was never a problem…especially as the glider planes I flew…they were all the same…it was a little faster…

How many planes did you go through? 

About 18 maybe...

You said you flew the K-4?

Yeah…I didn’t like it very much because the tail-wheel was retractable, and most of the time I couldn’t get it out anymore… then…you know, we would just not use it…

Did you find the tail wheel caused a lot of problems when it was down though, with wind resistance? 

Oh yeah…The first, uh…262’ s we had, had a tail wheel…and when they took off, after you hit a certain speed… shot on the breaks a little bit, and the tail came up, you know.

Do you mind if I take some pictures of your place here?  (Of course is where my digital camera decides to mess up on me.  Luckily I had a regular camera in the car, but only enough for 4 pictures I later realized).

No, go ahead… 

How did you get this, this panel here?

I had it given to me…by Galland…

 What do you do in your spare time now? 

Now?  Oh, I have no spare time…right now I built my bench in my shop out there…I was given a big model of the Go229, I don’t know which one, but you know this airplane? (Franz shows me a picture of the Go229 from one of his many aircraft books)  This…omni wing.  I flew it only as a glider plane…and one of my pilots, he was testing it…and he killed himself…he was an old fighter pilot too, and he flew all those wingless planes of this sort…

Wow… 

…What was left over from this airplane the American’s took with them.  At the end of the war there was…there just building a few yet, and…the Americans took them with them…the B-2 was built after this one here…There’s a new one coming out now, a space thing…the Lufthansa designed one…and ah, the Lufthansa…built and designed this airplane which is 7 days around the world with one gas…I met this girl who was flying it…

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